Haha ass....Lol Hyjin. ;)

what it made me laugh

Made me laugh to because of...something that I won't share publicly.

Lol new topic before i die laughing

See, that's the problem though, supports shouldn't be getting kills, and Darius is built for one thing and one thing only: Execution. He kills champions, it's what he does, it's what he's good at. If support has 3 farm and 1 kill by 5 minutes in, they've already stolen too much from the adc. I see a lot of people call "support" or say they're ok with "supporting" and then play like Thresh or Teemo and start just basically dual laning. I've even had a Thresh say they were going to play support, then they kept taking all of my last hits, never used lantern right (they would toss it half the damn lane AWAY from me), and would purposely steal kills. His reasoning? That he decided he would take kills because he knew HE could do well with them, and didn't think I would get them. When I told him he needed to build support items, get wards, and be more passive, he started insulting me and saying I didn't understand support, and people agreed with him! But the thing is? I essentially main support. I'm a pro Soraka, and my Sona ain't half bad either. Btu that is what most people seem to think support is these days, and it bugs me, so much. I can go with 0 farm and 0 kills and 0 deaths until 15 minutes in some games, but I'm the ONLY support I know like that.

Yay patching right now! New Karma looks more meant for Mid than for support xD;

There is nothing wrong with a support getting a kill. For one it secures the kill, the adc gets assist money, you're buying auras and wards making the adc stronger anyway, and sometimes you have to get the kill. As long as the enemy dies they are behind me, and that is all that matters. I completely disagree with the Darius thing though because you're wrong. He's a great support that can destroy a health bar with no farm allowing the ADC to easily net a kill, or to force them out of lane. You just don't ult when they're almost dead. You ult pretty much right away so they come in at a disadvantage. His ult always goes on cooldown now anyway. The support having extra gold is in no way bad for the ADC. I was playing Leona the other day, and carried my support for quite some time. Our other lanes asked why is our Leona on a rampage because I was 6/0 early in the game. With those six kills I netted him a total of 11 uncontested kills, and tanked damage much better than I would have normally in the later game. If the ADC can easily get the kill then no don't take it you might as well let him have it, but he has farm all you have is gp10 so if you get the chance to get a kill that he might not get you better take that kill. Better they die, and lose CS and exp over living.

I completely disagree with taking kills as a support. Unless it's obvious that your carry isn't going to get it (They're dead, they will be dead if you don't blow all your damage immediately, or they're getting away and you are the ONLY person who can get the kill), the support should not be getting a kill. A half-decent support will know to run GP10 runes and masteriesfor income. The quints are hecka cheap. I don't have the seals yet because I would need to buy both those and armor marks, and the amount of gold is much smaller than the quints and not worth the IP unless you have a lot more rune pages than I do. But with a single GP10 item and an assist or two, I have enough money for basic support items. If I get 2 GP10 items, I'm rolling in dough and usually have more than enough money to buy really fancy items for my team. If we're getting crushed so bad that I can't afford so much as a sightstone and boots, then my carry is even further behind than I am and needs the kill gold MUCH more than I do.

Also, sounds like the patch is getting reversed. I have a sad. I was really looking forward to playing Karma. Hopefully they get everything fixed soon.

I'm sorry, but getting a kill as a support is never a bad thing. Okay you're adc has say 75 farm, the enemy has 100 farm too, their support has no kills no cs, but you have 2 kills as the support. Even though he is behind in CS look what you have. Zeke's herald there is 20 extra AD, and oh look 10% lifesteal that he has as long as he's with you. The enemy support doesn't have this item because he has less gold. You're going to come out on top because you're support is stronger than theirs, and your adc benefits from it. If you can give the ADC the kill yeah do it, but it in no way hurts him not to. I don't get what's so hard to understand about that. I would rather have a Leona as my support with a Warmog's on that can tank the other ADC, and initiate on him over a kill. I don't think people realize how kills aren't important. The important thing is deaths, and deaths hit someone hard. A death at low levels is maybe 2 waves of minions you missed. That's 12-13 CS you don't have, and 12-13 minions worth of exp you lost. That's roughly 240 to 280g in the early game lost, and later game it's more. It's also easily a level lost in early game. Now a kill compared to that is 400g assuming they aren't already feeding because then it gets as low as 80g for a champion. First you have to kill them, second you put yourself in danger of being killed instead, and third you ignore minions by attacking them. Your goal shouldn't be to make money off a champion's death it should be to make it off minions. The risks in killing minions vs jumping on an enemy champion are way different, and at times not worth it. Now if the enemy dies though that's 780g, lane exp, and champion death exp you have over him assuming you kill every minion. If the support gets the kill he gains 400g enough for plenty of wards, and more auras for you. You get 100g for the assist, and then 280g from the free farm. You essentially have a champion kill worth of gold right there, and then you have the extra level so the extra pressure. Now if you get the kill as adc that's roughly 680g you gain, so enough gold for say 10 more AD. Your support gets 100g for the assist enough for 1 ward. If you actually look at it that way the support getting the kill makes your lane stronger, but the adc getting the kill makes your one person stronger. You need about 5 kills for a BF sword because each death decreases the amount of gold they give, so honestly kills don't even matter.

Also I think every ADC should rush an avarice blade early game. It's 3 gp10, and extra gold on every minion/champion kill. It's also crit chance, so even if you have even CS you're in the lead because gp10 and extra bounty on kills.

Oh and about the gp10 seals. It's not worth it all you get is 2gp10 from all of your seals being used up. You already get 3gp10 from quints, and 2 more from masteries. Most I would do is 4 gold seals for one extra gp10 because in a bad situation you're going to need that armor. You're better off being tankier with armor red, and yellow. That or having some extra damage to offer with a penetration red matching your champion.

This post was also much to long. xD

Oh this also explains really well the importance of avoiding a death rather than making sure you get the kill.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4cTEpSzZcM

Given your example, what if the enemy ADC has 2 kills? Now with your two kills you were able to buy a bunch of wards and an emblem of valor or a kindelgem. Your carry got 2 assists and has boots and a vamp scepter. But the enemy ADC has a bloodthirster. That is not beneficial to your lane at all.

Yes, a support getting a kill will always be better than nobody getting the kill. But the ADC will always be able to make better use of that gold. Only First Blood or killing somebody on a killing spree is worth 400 gold, and assist gold is only half the kill gold split between assisters. If jungle ganks and support gets the kill, your carry only gets 100g for first blood or 75 for any other kill. If the adc can get the kill, that's about three full waves of minions they don't have to farm before they get a damage item. If the support gets the kill and the carry gets an assist, then the carry is only about three measly minions closer to their damage item. And that's assuming that you're a diamond-level player and can get every creep.

Supports are designed to be able to run on little to no gold. If you watch the pro games in the LCS, many of the pro supports buy a sightstone, boots, and more wards. They don't buy Zeke's, they usually let the jungler buy Aegis/Locket, and the support is valuable because of the utility inherent in their kit. If Lulu, Janna, or Nami weren't allowed to buy any items, they would all still be perfectly functional supports.

A kill is not worth 3 minion waves. Each melee minion at the start of the game is 22.5g each caster is 16.5g and siege is 27g at the complete start. They each go up by .5 per wave except siege goes up by 1 per wave it's in. It's worth a little bit more than two waves with no siege minion only for the first two waves. There's also a reason I used a case where the adc had 25 less CS because yall had kills to make it a bit more fair. If the enemy team died he should hopefully be the one with less CS though. It all comes down to who the kills were on, and if they were back to back since they decreased the amount of deaths you need to become worthless to the enemy.

I bet any pro player would rather have a chance to free farm over a kill any time then again last I checked people usually don't die in pro games.

Alright, worth two waves. I don't know exact minion values because I don't take creeps from my carry. ;)

Honestly though, I'm just really frustrated with people who play support but think they are entitled to any of the creeps or kills. And that's coming from somebody who plays almost exclusively support. Some people think that getting money is fun, but I think that using all my utility then dying while my carry gets a triple kill and gets out unharmed is fun.

I don't like comparing my game experiences to pro games because in Bronze, you're going to get more money from kills than from farm. If someone's mechanics are good enough to get 5/6 minions from each wave and not get harassed down to dead, they can almost certainly carry up to high silver or gold at least.

When it comes to your lane if you're not the support you should be farming at the very least 4 out of the 6. Unless you were severely countered, and can't get near the wave. A support should also freely farm the lane when the ADC goes B so they should have a few CS end game. If a minion is about to die, and no one can reach it then it's your job to take it. Honestly the worst thing is the ADC that abuses the support because the support is basically their slave.

I wish people also understood what a minion tax was. If a jungler comes to gank your lane, and he wants to take 2 or 3 minions you have no right to complain. People do anyway though, or when they're not in the lane and you just take last hits they spend a ton of time hitting V ping on you. You can't reach these minions quit your whining.

Also wish the servers would come back online, so I can play against a bunch of bad Karmas.

i want to play league now

Meh, new Karma is cool I guess, I like her. I miss old Karma, I'll miss her being super-support. She's more like a weak mage now than a strong support, but she's been good to me so far. Her shields is definitely amazing, and the new mantra bonus on her Q has turned her into a real punisher. I went like 13/4/15 in a game earlier, made me happy xD

Abut support...support is support. No, you are not the ADC's slave, if they're playing poorly, feel free to take over, but don't make any assumptions. I think anyone with a view like yours should play more Soraka, seeing as she's the only actual support champion, and maybe Lulu. every other champion that supports is a mage/bruiser with some support capabilities.

Needless to say, me and Lucid agree on all points <<

All the way from level 1 to 30 I played support. I'm well aware of how it works. Besides that discussion is long past. Lucid disagrees, so whatever. Literally use to get 30+ assists every single game especially as Soraka....nabbing bs assists from across the map. Soraka is really not that great of a support though. She's best with people like Ezreal, Corki, and Urgot just so they can spam spells. I feel like overall she's lacking compared to other supports though because she lacks CC.

Soraka was much stronger when she had stronger heals. Heals were her only strength and those got nerfed. I used to play a lot of Soraka back in the day but I almost never play her now because Sona or Nami provide adequate sustain while also bringing zoning potential and cc to the lane. I wouldn't agree that "every" other support is a mage/bruiser either though. Janna is a strong defensive support and a mediocre mage. Sona is terrible at being a mage and so is Nami. If anything, Lulu was one of the supports more capable of being a mage. Even though Leona wasn't designed to be a support, she's pretty terrible without teammates around to proc her passive.

Old Karma was terrible at supporting ranged carries. She was really great at supporting melee bruisers or melee carries or anything melee. I miss her team heal but I think that she's improved as a support somewhat. The spammable slow on Q is much better than the hard to manage slow on w was, and the new root on w is pretty valuable. The speed boost on her e helps a lot in securing a fleeing enemy as well. She feels a little weak early game, but with max CDR mantra seems to be up once per spell rotation which is nice.

Leona was entirely designed to do nothing other than tank, and a few tanks fill the role of support. I think she is an amazing jungler though for the same reasons she's a good support.

She comes to the lane. Root, and Two stuns/stun and slow. Her passive brings extra damage to the gank. So she comes in CCs makes people hit harder and deals her own damage. Amazing jungle imo, but you can get fucked over hard because you can't really fight someone off in the jungle. Especially not Dr. Mundo.....

Oh and Soraka was fine, but then I think they nerfed her heal with a longer damn cooldown. Riot says screw sustain.

Well, Zac has now entered the fray. Anyone bought and/or played him yet? Any opinions?

Law has him. and there are youtube vids of him doing a jump smite over baron and dragon... its pretty op

betcha he gets hit with the nerf stick next patch.

oh yeah he will

Without a doubt....

Has anybody played CHEW yet? It's pretty hilarious and fun.

I've played it. It brings back memories of the original arcade games....woohoo!

Also....anyone have any advice for playing Riven?

Your shield scales off AD so building damage makes you more survivable. Make sure to space out your spell usages and auto in between to maximize damage from your passive. Other than that, I haven't played her much so I can't help much on gameplay tips.

Hmmm....okay. I tried playing her earlier today and got the crap beat out of me until mid to late game....and by that point the other team was so fed it didn't really matter. This was a bot match as well. Everyone kinda fed...really badly....

Awww, it stinks when that happens. :( Some of the bots are a lot meaner than others though. Like Cassiopeia bot and Annie bot. They're the worst.

I hate those....along with Xin Zhao bot and Kog Maw bot. Never fought a Nocturne bot though....wonder how that would be.

The bots that take cleanse are really good at using it, too. Not like people, even pros, who react half a second later. No, they cleanse it the millisecond the stun hits and then proceed to bash your face in.

Is there even a Nocturne bot? :O I don't think I've seen one before.

I've noticed that....very annoying at times. *sighs*

I don't believe so come to think of it.....there are several I haven't seen as bots that I wouldn't mind playing against......

There was a time when there were only like 20 available bots. It was always Ryze or Annie mid. No fun after a while! They added like 40 not long after I transitioned to intermediate bots, and it was hard! I know occasionally a new bot gets added but it's not too terribly often.

Now that I'm thinking of it...I do believe I am going to try and keep track of what bots I play and see if I can't come up with a list of what all bots there are.

There's a page on the wiki that lists them if you don't want to go through all that trouble. But if you want to keep track yourself, who am I to stop you?

Well....true. I just like keeping records for my own sake.

Lissandra the ice witch was just revealed. Fun fun.

The Ice Witch looks so amazing, I am excited to play her. The abilities seem strong, but I'm not a huge fan of her appearance, tbh.

Damn....just read the reveal info for her. She looks like she will be fun to play and one of the few AP champs I might get.

Did you also see the revamps for Sejuani and Trundle?

I really like Sejuani and I love her new look. I think her new passive will be a really great change for her and help her out a ton in the jungle. I only played Trundle once or twice on a free week. I'm kindof indifferent to the visual changes but I really liked his personality a lot before the rework. I'm a little sad that they took a lot of that away and made him more serious. Hopefully they'll be able to find some sort of balance between the two. Gameplay wise, I think he's probably already strong and the rework is just a bit of tuning up his kit to look and work better.

Lissandra seems really interesting but it's just so hard to tell how she'll play before trying it out. She sounds really strong with all her utility, but I'm sure her cooldowns and numbers are tuned around that. Her animations and effects are really amazing, though.

Sejuani's new look seems like it will be pretty cool, and her new passive will add in a better ability to absorb damage. Interested to see how it is in actual play though. Never played Trundle, and don't see myself doing it. Nothing against him, just doesn't seem like my type.

Lissandra will certainly be OP at release with how it looks, but I'm with Lucid that her cooldowns will probably be tad higher than other AP champions. I actually like her appearance.....reminds me of Matriarch Benezia from Mass Effect to be honest. Effects look good. Her passive will be fun to play with though.