Open Beta, Nightmare.

CB1 is primary closed beta, then more if there ARE more(Which, really, there usually are more) Then OB, then more, if they had to close in between XD

Ooooh, okay.
I'm completely stupid, don't mind me.

You didn't bother reading like what I usually do for the implication problem I made with that comment on Quest threads. (Or you did and then I'm lost.)
And charity's are fun, but I want to give the item to someone myself. Feels more natural :/
And i do donate, gradually. Like I do on Gaia, the last time I donated here was about 3 to 4 weeks ago to a new member and I gave her 5k. (And she never came posting again.. A shame.)
I don't go all out like you, I just go here and there. Like I do in donations in real life for drives, give a little here and there. (Oh and bekkah that was slightly rude, not much though.)

(Warning this statement is way of topic a bit.)

Everybody has greed, but greed isn't completely evil like what everyone thinks it is, everyone lusts for something its quite nice lusting and getting things. But it doesn't mean you should have too much of it. People say pride is good, I hate statements like you can never have to much pride. To me its "THERE IS SUCH THING AS TOO MUCH PRIDE." Just imagine if everyone took pride in everything. Annoying for one, and two evil. Taking pride in killing something? ... Yeah that can be pretty evil. Portions in life, some people aren't use to having a lot and will argue some people feel they have enough or not enough.

*Is anticipating a comment from nightmare about all the items i have.*
I don't want to be rash or rude, just don't say anything about it. I heard it millions of times from you before about me or other people. I really don't care to hear it again.

=_= I don't want them for FREE. But 100 posts seem too much for just ONE item. I can't post so much (and like I once said said, msot conversations in regular threads are about food, perverted stuff or "how are you", so there isn't much to talk ABOUT in general, for some people at least).

I understand posting and being part of community, working for items is part of avvie site... And I post, as much as I can, REALLY, but spending 7,5k aurum for runes... Cut such a big hole, I know I won't be able to rebuild it in a week, or maybe even two.

It's not fair to raise prices just because some people are good at selling items and can be on more than others. It's not even liking or not liking Trisphee thing... There are real life conditions.

.... 5k on gaia really isn't helping a ton though. x n x

and your last paragraph is kind of ...
contradicting. Not to be rude, but I do think you have too much. @o@

I said on trisphee not gaia xD
Last thing I recall donating on gaia was a bundle pack for rigs.
Read carefully and you notice it. Perhaps I should have said trisphee in there.

Oh, I didn't see the here. xD
you were talking about gaia then jumped right back to here really fast.

I guess I did went a tad fast there.

But like I said, I donate whatever I want gradually. People tend to donate on avatar sites to plain out be a good person. And sometimes just to feel better about themselves because you know you did a nice thing.

I do it for both those reasons XD

And...this is why charities rock =O

Illusion...I think I may or may not have a asolution for you.

What if you and maybe a friend or two got together and started a charity of sorts? Even make it kind of a game to get donations?

Then, it is you who gives the items/aurums/runes, you who decides who gets what, etc.

I mean, the idea of wanting to be the one giving, and giving for good reason, not just because, is completely reasonable.

and, bonus, if you run a charity, bound to get coversation after a couple days, especially if you're the real deal.

You get conversation, you get to donate yourself, directly, and you get to decided what goes where, in what order, who to, and why.

I rather have giveaways or a game then a charity, more fun that way. (I am planning on doing another Mr. Tweetum thing like I did last Novemeber. I have been planning this sense last year to begin with so.. Yeah xD)

Well, good luck with it then ^_^

I wonder if people realize in the end by inflating the value of items they devalue the actual currency thus making everything pretty much worthless. I mean End of WWI Germans were paying a lot of money for bread. Just sayin.

Woah. I left this place and it had like 3 views and now it's already got 4 pages of posts? Lol.

I didn't think people would post so much, so soon.

ya, but general tone of these pages says "let's inflate things over da top :B"

I dislike inflation. xD

TELL ME WHEN YOU DO IT THIS YEAR. >:C

Inflation is okay in small doses, but the prices of the RDIs is outrageous right now. I've been saving since the end of last month, have only a little over 5k, and I'm still not sure if I would be able to get even one RDI for this month. Back a couple months ago, I could've bought an RDI for 3-3.5k easily.

I joined in November, during the Taskal War. I was fortunate enough to join during an event that got me a lot of really cool items right out of the gate. However, I know that a lot of new users don't have that luxury.

I feel great shame when I'm unable to post sporting an awesome avi, and I know a lot of new users also feel the same. Therefore, earning aurum can be exceedingly arduous when you're ashamed of how poor you look.

I did tell you, the beginning of November. I know I did because I was telling you about it before youmacon.

Oh and why do you need to know?

only one person's been saying that. and that person has received every reaction ranging from "I'm going to skewer you and roast you and eat you for dinner" to "you know, you're great, but you should really think about how what you say/do affects others."
XD this thread amuses me.

Mmm, roasted blasphemer~ *drools*

All in all, I don't think inflation for older items has gotten too terrible. I think it's just some of the more recent things at have taken the express rocket to the stratosphere.

and that is precisely backwards of how it should be.

People can be greedy on aurums when they don't post alot of thing they usually depend their aurums through shops and sells.

The one that drives me nuts on the ones that wants an offer because I don't know how much they want for it and they want it to be haggled more and the buyrs want to haggle lower and it's just somehow a constant fight.

So I was reviewing the Merchant Square rules today, and I came across this one:

I think that if people are going to take offers higher than the amount an item's been selling for recently, the seller should CLEARLY state that they are taking offers/auctioning the item, not selling, because selling at inflated prices is considered artificial inflation and against the rules. We don't want to be rule breakers, right? As a Merchant Square mod, I believe I would like to keep an eye on this particular rule from now on. >.> (hint hint; nudge nudge)
Remember, kids, the difference between auctions and sales are subtle but VERY important.

Lucid the only problem with that is well.. Let me explain it this way, lets say a Anka hasn't been sold for 1 whole year. And someone is selling it and they are asking 500k. Arent they allowed to ask for that much? Or must they have to say they are taking offers on it or auctioning it.

Plus what is the definition artificially inflated in a avatar community to begin with? Aren't we allowed to sell anything for any prices we want? And buy for whatever price we want also?
One link to artificial inflation definition The definition here is buying out most of the same item(s) in a marketplace and selling them at a higher price. But if someone pays a price and everyone follows that isn't artificial that describes the definition of Inflation (AKA Supply and demand.) which isn't against the rules.

So basically in this situation unless someone is buying all the DI's from everyone, then selling them at extremely high prices that would be artificial inflation. But then that contradicts the purpose of "Buying for low, Selling for High." and it will lead to what I stated above of selling a item like anka one year in the future ect.

To be honest that rule might need to be rewritten if your going to be enforcing it the way you are. But if the rule isn't changed you might as well add a marketplace system where all the prices are fixed because there wouldn't be a point for selling items in forums at all unless it was for trading them. Because prices will be controlled completely on people who run price guides and or Admins who will say what price is what.

You really can't really claim anything about the purpose of buying low and selling high when you're purposely buying high. That's a whole new game. And buying higher than the asking price before anybody is offering anywhere near the offer made IS artificial inflation.

We can't exactly live by the Gaia definition of artificial inflation because we're not Gaia. We have a completely different marketplace than they do. Gaia's artificial inflation happens mostly in the MP, not the exchange.
If someone pays a higher price and then everyone follows, sure, that's natural inflation. But if someone, or a small group of people, pay a higher price and everyone complains about it, that's artificial inflation at work.

If an Anka set hasn't sold for a whole year and someone wants to put a general estimated price on it, that's not artificial inflation because there's no standard market value on it. People might buy it at that price, they might not. It's hard to make a straight sale on an item that is rarely sold, and that's why auctions/offers are handy.

I'm not sure how or if I will be able to enforce an artificial inflation rule completely, but I do think that there should be a better distinction between selling and taking offers. Because right now, most "sales" in our marketplace are actually short-term auctions.
There may be a fuzzy line on where sales and offers meet, but there's still a line. The way I see it, if the seller has a general idea of how much they want to sell for, and states their price in the thread, then it's a sale, even if some haggling and offering goes on, even if the item sells for either higher or lower than the original asking price. If the seller doesn't tell any of the potential buyers how much they're looking for, and just lets the offers go up and up until they've gotten the best deal, that's not a sale, that's an auction.

xDD I love how you explain a buyers artificial inflaiton.

xDDDDD
I'm sorry.. That's just.. *face palm* I'm laughing so bad right now xD

No if a small group of people are buying for a higher price, they are just buying something for a higher price. If people complain about it, they are just complaining about it.
That's not inflation, unless everyone is paying the same exact amount that's inflation. But not artificial inflation. Its only artificial if that group sells the items afterwards for extremely high prices.

And I did try to find a better definition of artificial inflation, but the word artificial inflation we use comes from Gaia to begin with. So it is the most appropriate fit.

So the way I see it, right now with the DI's it isn't artificial inflation if everyone else is paying for it. Only if someone is buying all of them out of the system and then selling them for higher. So basically its just supply and demand.

Artificial inflation didn't originate with Gaia. :/ It's been studied in economic theory for nearly a century.

But perhaps what you're looking for, then, isn't the term "artificial inflation" but rather "anti-trust legislation". Lucid's description VERY MUCH fits the definition of price fixing: An individual or group of individuals act to purchase goods at a value other than the normal market price, causing a direct influence of that market price to align with what those people with the buying power are paying.

You pull that stunt in the real world, at least in the US, and you're going to find yourself in a lawsuit. Microsoft's been staring down the barrel of THAT gun for years because they have the buying power to pay hardware manufacturers more than their competition in exchange for selling computers with Windows preinstalled at prices that Microsoft dictates.

Now, I'm not accusing you of price fixing, but the effect is much the same: By willingly paying so far above the market value just for the sake of making sure you get one, the sellers will raise their prices to meet the demand. You are inducing an artificial change in the supply-and-demand curves, to the detriment of the less fortunate users -- users that are the lifeblood of our site; we MUST NOT develop a reputation that our users are separated into the rich and the poor and you have to be rich to buy anything.

And before you say that isn't going to happen, observe that this thread even exists.

I never said the word artificial inflation orginated from gaia, I said the common use of the word we know today came from Gaia.
And Coda you pretty much described what I was saying. A bit... I never heard of a artificial supply and demand before.

My only question is, how to prevent it. Can trisphee really have a rule against anti trust legistration? I can't really see that happening or working. As of now all this talk about a market ect is giving me... Well, you know that feeling you get when you are actually learning outside of school and you overloaded yourself with information? Yeah that xD

Just because people complain about something inflating it doesn't mean the inflation is artificial. o_o

Trust me I was on another site during their everyone is complaining about inflation time(and it was a good chunk of the population). Actually it was like 50% against and 50% for. Eventually people started paying the new price of their donation currency. Now that price is normal. Most people would probably complain if people valued it at the old price in offers XD. I think people complain because people are creatures of habit and resist change. It has nothing to do with rather the inflation is artificial or not.

Personally when I buy a DI I pay what I think it's worth. For example I bought this month's DI set for 8.5k. Personally, I find that to be a reasonable price. I wasn't paying it because I have tons of aurum to spend. It was almost all of my aurum at the time. I payed it because I find it reasonable with all things considered. That isn't artificial inflation at all <.<. Especially since that's the only set I'm(and probably other people who pay similar prices are) buying.

I don't see as many rune/current DI sellers either the last few months, at least not when I've been on, so that's part of it too. I used to be better at catching people selling them XD. Less supply + demand = inflation. I don't see how it's artificial supply and demand... unless I missed something, which I do a lot.

I like Ashleys comment xD fits my thoughts perfectly. Especially the part of people resistant to habit changing. That was the first thought that came to mind when all of this started.

No you didn't miss anything, that's about it. Unless I missed something too.

We can definitely put rules in place for price controls. ("Anti-trust legislation" isn't synonymous with "artificial inflation" -- I wasn't meaning to make it sound like they were the same thing. Anti-trust legislation is the laws passed to prevent rich people from screwing with the economy.) It's fairly subjective, yes, but it's pretty simple to say that the mods are going to keep an eye on people asking for or offering amounts unreasonably higher than the average without justification.

The problem is that in a community this small normal economic stresses don't work to keep the free market under control: sellers will ALWAYS find a buyer no matter what the price is because the supply of currency is, essentially, unlimited. This is an issue that's always going to happen with currencies that aren't tied to any fixed resource -- many countries in the real world have discovered this problem the hard way, and many video games have had their economies ruined by this simple fact. External non-economic pressure is the only solution: that is to say, rules.

So what exactly is considered justification? If we think it's reasonable and have reasons to back it up?

I mean honestly it seems like one person thought 8.5k was so unreasonable that they had to post it in the thread that I bought it from.

Likewise, I've wanted 4k per for a while so I think its reasonable.
I like this right now, were talking about things I've already thought over. So now its just smooth sailing in this debate until we find a neutral solution.

Yeah, 4k per is perfectly reasonable in my opinion. And if people pay a bit over that now and then it's not a big deal.

4k probably IS reasonable. I don't think anyone's complaining about 4k.

Hm well someone complained about me paying 8.5k for a set and that's only 4.25k per. I mean they actually said it wasn't worth that XD. So apparently it isn't that reasonable in some people's eyes.

Nearly everyone here was complaining about 4k-5k each xD

I think 5k for an item is starting to get costly. x n x

Yeah I just looked back through the pages XD.

Also, how does it deter newbies(referring to older posts) I wonder. I mean when I join a site I don't care how much the current monthlies cost I just post and if I get them great. If I dont, then fine I'll just buy them for a little more later. Also I doubt people who join a new site feel like if they don't get the current monthlies that it's the end of the world. I mean they're new I'm sure they know that they can't afford everything right off the bat.

night: yeah 5k per should be highest end for now I'd say

It's amazing how people don't want change when they are so used to something. I'm fine with change as long its backed up with real supporting detail, has room for change, is open for ideas, but most importantly. Its not stupid.